Finally getting pond put in
 

Finally got my pond scheduled. They are staring the 15th.

Pond dimensions will be 75x110 and 8 to 10 ft deep depending on clay depth.

Hopefully this will add to my preps eventually when we add some bluegill and catfish.

Water, and protein... two of the hardest things to store.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

is someone just doing the digging and hauling away the dirt/clay ?
and the pond will fill up with rainwater ?

maybe think about putting a cache in the pond side/slope before it gets filled ?

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

We are hiring the work done, unfortunately. Good news is it will take them approx a week to get r done.

The dirt will stay on property, we are using it to raise the back acre by 6 to 10 inches, the rest will be used to add some 'interest' to the back side of the pond by creating 3-5 foot hills to plant some trees and greenery on.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

good place for a cache :ok:

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Be careful where you put the extra dirt. If you increase the dirt depth where there are existing trees, the roots cannot get enough oxygen and the trees will die.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Great Idea Tech guy.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Not a problem......

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Do you plan to aerate the pond or will it support the fishies as is?

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Aerate or fountain. I like the idea of a fountain in the middle, but not the electricity required. It will be one or the other.

Non-aeration around here means green, algae filled, mosquito breeder.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Good to see that you're addressing aeration right from the get go. Most people overlook that, ending up with the results in your post. Have you thought about putting in some largemouth bass to keep the panfish in check? I always thought a pond would be an interesting experiment in biology, population dynamics and all that.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I would not mind throwing some stripers in there.... I am going to have to research some, don't want to overdo it.

I am thinking that about 20 dozen minnows would start things off nicely for the first few months.

I have had fishtanks continuously for the last 15 years. I only recently retired the last one. This will be the biggest fish experiment of all...

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Your best bet would be to talk with someone from your states Dept of Fish & Game about pond stocking. They will have good advice on species and numbers/size to stock. IIRC, they will stock your pond for free.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I think the pond has to be 'publicly accessible' or in other words, visible from the road here in texas, but yes I will definitely double check.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Wow!! Lots of horror stories on that site!

Did find this:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/faq/landwater/fisheries/

So no, Texas does not assist in stocking private ponds.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Hey - this spring-break when I come down - I'll have to remember to bring my trunks!

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

So far so good, except for the rain today... But what a mess!

Looks like we have heavy clay down past 10ft. So we will end up with a average depth of 8-10 ft.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

plenty deep...

Mudcats should be right at home in there:rofl:

Looks... ummm... Great! If you're a visionary:tongue_ma:

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

That is the plan, cats and bluegill. Working on a design for a cantilever suspension pier that will go over the water by about 10 ft. Any excuse to work with steel cables is a good one.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Sounds fancy.

Why not float it?

ahh wait what am I thinking...


"Any excuse to work with steel cables is a good one"

Got it.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Where's the challenge in that?

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Edited above^^


Ya I guess I'm the "Simple - Effective" kind of guy.


Suspended Cantilever is classy tho.

Just don't neglect any tactical considerations.:RockOn:

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

looking good so far techguy!

Im envious
I want me a pond too.

Are ya gonna have to line it with plastic to keep the water from seeping?

or will the clay do that?

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I think the fish would take care of the mosquitos

and plants would help Aerate it (i think)

I have another question

How are you gonna fill it with water?

You got an Artesian well??

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

No artesian. It will be well water and rain water.


Got an angry visit from the neighbor that backs up to me. Pissed that I didn't run it through the homeowners assoc.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

:favorites8::signs14:

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

The clay will work if the operator knows what he's doing.

Don't forget the berm for your backyard range while you have all that dirt handy!

Are you going to put in any ditches to catch runoff/help it fill faster? What about an overflow?

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

homeowners assoc.???

Dang, I hate those...I would never live anywhere where they had those.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Never again, I will tell you that.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

It is so flat out here that overflows are generally not used much....where would it go?

We may plumb in the gutters off the back of the house in to the pond, not sure yet. We have asphalt shingles. ag extension says it is ok to use with pond, but I am not 100% sure of that myself.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

First of all, I wish to congratulate TechGuy on taking the initiative to become more sustainable in the event that SHTF happens. I also commend the other posters on their well-intentioned comments. From the "Truth, Accuracy, and Full Disclosure Department," I wish to offer my 2 cents, as I have a M.S. in Conservation Biology, with a solid background in Ichthyology and Fish Ecology. My opinions and suggestions to some of the comments made by all are as follows:

--Aeration is a complete waste of FRN's. Aeration is a tool of the landscape industry that will sell you "anything you need." All it does is de-stratify the aerobic and anaerobic zones, which is a very natural and needed process. In effect, it reduces the overall available dissolved oxygen by resuspending nutrients and fine sediment that are algae food and sun-blockers respectively, among other not-so-desirable outcomes.

--Algae is not necessarily the enemy. In moderation, it is actually a good thing. If you have too much, simply harvest with an aquatic plant rake and compost. Algae is a nutrient issue (normally excess Phosphorous), therefore the best way to prevent excess algae would be to "cap" the clay with a 6-12" layer of sand, gravel and rock to lock down those nutrients and sediment. Equally important would be to eliminate runoff of fertilizer, animal poop, etc. into the pond and by establishing a natural buffer zone of 10 feet+ around the pond that can absorb some of those nutrients. Contrary to popular belief, native aquatic plants are not "weeds," and should be encouraged. They will compete with the algae and provide habitat for the fish and other wildlife.

--Pondboss Magazine: Junk! Again, another tool of the landscaping industry that you don't need. You are trying to create a sustainable ecosystem, not just a pretty pond in you back yard.

--Fish Stocking: Do you homework on this one. The more species you have, the better. Bluegills are a good choice, as they are essentially "ditch fish" and will do well almost anywhere. Catfish are not as good of an idea. They will not reproduce in a pond and 95%+ of them will perish from competition and lack of a viable food source. Catfish are nocturnal fish that feed by smell and touch, and feed almost entirely on other bottom-dwelling, slow-moving fish. They will not do well if Bluegills are the only other species in the pond. I would hate to see you waste FRN's and fish, as the Ictaluridae (Catfish) family is absolutely fascinating and one of my favorites.

Sorry for the long post, and I don't intend to offend anyone, but I deal with these issues regularly and thought I could be of assistance. I hope you find this information helpful and good luck.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I just wanted to say, even though Im not building a pond, and wont in the near future, thanks for the information! GIM never ceases to amaze me with the scope of information available.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Interesting.. I know quite a few people who raise cats in smaller ponds like the one I am building and have had few/no issues as long as the water wes deep enough.

Here in south texas the primary catfish food is cheap dogfood distributed with a deer feeder. They are almost pets.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I think he said 'catfish will not 'reproduce' "

Doesn't necessarily mean they wont grow.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Yeah, you are right. I don't think I was clear in the fact that the reason we will be aerating and feeding is to increase the capacity of the pond. Also, I do live in a neighborhood so the pond needs to look tidy and clean.

I am less concerned about reproducing catfish as I am stocking/growing them.

I did have a question for Pyramid though...

Several sites mention that it is a bad idea to stock bream (including bluegill) along with catfish... but no explanation was given.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I didn't realize you were looking to raise Catfish as part of a "fish farm" type operation. If so, your plan should do just fine. I was commenting on the inability of them to reproduce in static waters. But if you're going to stock and feed them, you should do fine. But what happens when you run out of dog food? Just saying. Sustainability is the key. Again, good luck.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Have you thought of Tilapia? I hear they can survive and thrive (reproduce, grow well, etc) in a large range of aquatic conditions.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I just read they need warm water

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilapia

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I'll cross that pond when I get there! (ba dum dump)

I guess if we run out of DF, we will have one hell of a fish fry. :emotions16:

I am not planning on juicing the carrying capacity so much that a massive die off would occur if the power went out, and we are looking at diffrenct options for aeration.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

You will have to get some large mouth bass in your pond to controll the gill populations or it will be just a matter of time before you are over populated. We attended a seminar put on by our DNR (Indiana) on pond management. We were astounded by the amount of fish (bluegill) that you needed to remove (annually) to keep a ponds health in check. 80lbs of bluegill per acre!!! Our small lake association has a 10 acre lake needing almost 800 lbs of gills removed each year. I got about 10 lbs and am one of three guys that keep fish. It is no wonder we have dinks and the bass population while overly plentiful only reaches 10-12 inches. One a side note they said you should remove no more then 10 lbs of bass per acre each year.

In short, hope you and your family really like eating fish. Fortunatley, my family does and we are upping the harvest this year.:565:

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Protein is one of the hardest things to store in home storage. So this should fit the bill somewhat.

I could grill and eat fish at least 1/3 of the time, so we should be good.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

looks like there's a lotta weight sitting on that edge, i hope there's no liability issues for you here

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

thats nothing a real good rain or a osha officer couldnt fix ......


Tech.....outa curiosity what is your intention for all the excess dirt?

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Fill in the yard. It constantly has water sitting on it, and has been a major problem. Some will go to a 3-4 ft burm around the back half of the pond, we will plant saplings on it.... And some will go to a 40x40 pad to be used for a barn later.

On a bad note, the HOA sent me a cease and desist today. I think I will ignore it as they pond guys say they will be done tomorrow, and will remove their equipment this weekend.

Once they are done, then we can work this out whatever way needs be.

This is not a court order, just a threat to get one. So I think I am ok for now, as it should take a few days to procure one.

:fan::fan::fan::fan:

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I've seen many ponds ruined due to overpopulation of bluegill/sunfish, resulting in stunted fish. Getting the right predator/prey balance is critical. Stocking some channel cat also will help, as they can be fairly efficient predators of young bluegill. It's nice when you can catch nice sized bluegill, which, IMO are better eating than largemouth bass any day of the week! I wouldn't harvest any bass for several years, if ever.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Now all you need to do is add water. This is our before and after picture from last year. I hope to add some bluegill and catfish this spring. http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...1/100_0484.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3.../newulm059.jpg

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

How are you guys planning on harvesting your fish? Is it all going to be rod and reels to have some fun with it, or is there another method also?

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I would probably do the same thing.....you might want to read the HOA bylaws and see a attourny to be ready .......it might make a big difference what you actually call the "pond"...IE ...i could be called a.....pool...or a storm water collection basin...etc......you might find what you call it might make a difference....IE...pools might be ok with the HOA(its just a cheap dirt pool)........or a Storm water containment basin might be governed by the state and superseed HOA rules and regs.....

it would be a good time to do your home work real quick like so you have the right answers to keep them off your back.....

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

That's gonna be a man-sized pond!

I've got a natural pond - about 20 X 40, maybe 4 feet deep. It's fed fresh well water from from geothermal effluent. The pond overflow empties into a creek that feeds the town water supply. I put a half dozen fancy koi in it 6 years ago. I forgot about them for a year - thought they got eaten when I didn't see them for months. We have big ass snapper turtles by us, some 4 feet, blue herons and kingfishers. Anyway, they had babies, lots of them. So I've now got 8 koi that are 12-18" and maybe 50 smaller ones ranging from 2-5 inches. One of these days, I've got to remove some of the smaller guys (do you want some koi?). I suppose the fish population is not a problem because the well water probably replenishs the pond water every other day.

Maybe I'll post some pics of my little girlie-man pond.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Wow, nice ponds Tech guy and Bob! I am considering having one as well. I would need a liner though, as our soil won't hold water otherwise. I have spring coming from a hillside on my property that would keep it full, with the overflow eventually reaching the river.

Is your part of Texas windy? If so, windmills can be used to provide aeration. It sounds like if you have the right flora and fauna aeration may not be required though.

Nice JD tractor as well Tech dude! I have one very similar. Good workhorse with the 3 cylinder diesel...

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

here in ky most of the time they line the pond are small lakes with lime to make the side an bottom tighter so it will hold water do you guys there do that are is the soil enough to hold the water ............. good luck with your hoa stuff ....... what was the cost of digging that hole if i can ask

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

girlie-man pond......:111:.....is that something like being a "pink neck" stead of a red-neck ??

in all seriousness ....i am curious about your open loop geothermal unit...how is it working ...water quality...hard water problems??

i just put in a closed loop system and it is working great but a open loop system would have been substancially cheaper but i was worried about hard water problems and issues. we had some very cold days this winter and we still heated very well......ac is fantastic....hot water desupinator is also fantastic...i ended up using 5 200' verticle wells for my loop (5tons)

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

The well water is only slightly hard but otherwise if very high quality. The wll is about 450 feet. The water has not impacted negatively on the geothermal heat pump unit. Water comes in at 55 degrees and during summer months exits at 65 degress; and during winter water exits at 45 degrees. Effluent runs through about 200' piping underground to an open pond whihc is otherwise completely natural and on an easement. The system heats and cools very nicely and is very quiet and there are no fumes or exhaust. What's not to like?:wink:

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

5k so far, i guess pluss attorney's fees.

Because of the clay here they are not going to be able to get the banks as pretty as bob's.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Well.. bad news.

I had to submit all my plans to the HOA...

I went ahead and told the construction guys to stand down until I hear from the board.

Hopefully this will go quickly.

Did I ever mention how much I hate HOA's? Don't we have enough government without imposing little taxing fiefdoms this close to home?

Never again will I buy property in a HOA. Live and Learn I guess. But the learning part seems to be particularly painful.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Have you considered crayfish for bio-diversity in your pond?
:coolbeer:

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

They will be supplied naturally around here. We have loads of em.

I doubt they would survive channel cats though.o

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Sorry about you HOA problems, that pond was really shaping up. Do have to get HOA approval on any and every improvment?

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Thanks. I guess I will know by wed. how much grief they are going to put me through. I am thinking this is going to take a real estate attorney before it is over.

It isn't uniform at all... some people get away without being put through the wringer, others do not. They were all tweaked at the amount of dirt and the size of the pond, when at least 8 other lots here have brought in massive amounts of dirt, and at least 3 other lots have ponds, 1 of which is much larger than the one I am building.

I have some good google earth pictures that show dirt added and the ponds, so it should be an easy enough case to prove if it goes that far.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I agree very nice.
I want one too!!
We also would need a liner. and we have no Creek. So it might take years to fill up. But still may do it. I want it pretty bad.
It would be great to be able to catch fish in my own yard.

I have read a little about Spray on pond liners. Not sure about the cost though.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

No problem then. Make yourself a cheap crayfish trap and you have cheap food for your cats.
:coolbeer:

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

if you have no water source or a large drainage area you would sure need to do calculations of rain fall vs loss due to evaporation etc

if your on a well you could consider something like mamboni did in using a geothermal open loop heat pump and the excess water goes to his pond, geothermal heat pumps in general use 1gal water per ton of Ac per hour of operation...geothermal unit use substancially less energy than any other form of heat/cool except for wood on the heat side

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Great looking pond so far TG. Looks like a mountain in yer backyard! I'll swing a bag of chicken bones over the goats skull tonight and bathe the HOA in an aura of rubberstamping. :getdown:

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I'll try to post some more pics of the 'non work' being done right now!

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I did just talk to one of the guys on the board, he actually wants my left over dirt, and likes the idea of the pond! So that is the first good news of the day. Hopefully it will continue!

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

K, purchased the software, so no more watermarks.

This is the pond/backyard as seen from the upstairs bedroom......

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

beautiful place you have there Techguy
the pond looks fantastic:beer:

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Ohhh that's lookin much better..

Is that a bit of a draw / inlet there on the West side?

or is that just ligher golored clay?...

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

No, it is pretty much circular, with a very slight teardrop shape (I finally told them big enough! Uncle!!!!)

That is really an optical illusion due to the dirt not being level.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

TG, Do NOT give him any of your soil until you know the value of it. Believe me, it IS valuable. Buying off a HOA vote, I don't know....

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Gotcha..

Well, its sounding like the drama may blow over..

Good deal

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

TechGuy; Has the guy digging it made ponds before?

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Yes, I went and looked at a couple he did down the road. They were more of stock pond setup with gentler sloping sides, but they were completely full and holding water.

We requested fairly steep banks, since we have a huge problem with egrets and herons here. They will literally sit and eat ALL the small fingerlings in a small pond. This is the recommendation of the TX dept of parks and wildlife.

BTW> finding dedicated pond builders this close in to houston is a tall order. Not much call for that anymore, almost all the crews are general dirt guys.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

This is heavy black/brown clay, it is almost useless. You can't hardly give the stuff away. Dirt yards wont even take it.

If this were not the cheapest route to level my property, I would have never put more of it down. I refuse to put the extra in my front yard, we bring in much better dirt for that.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Cool.
yeah, the steep banks make sense that way.
We have herons here too. lost a few koi to them.
looking good:emotions16:

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

reckon egrets taste like chickin?

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

You can't kill the herons, but supposedly you can get a egret nuisance permit to shoot them.

They only like to stand in shallow water, so I am hoping this will keep em out.

Now, there a LOTS of squeaker ducks around here, so maybe I will get a few of those guys hanging around.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Shoot & not kill?? Why? Or just shoot to scare them off?

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

ehh..

ya- tongue in cheek comment I made.. I'd eat the mud bugs before the mud birds...lol

I meant as a SHTF fresh meat suppliment..

TPWD regs be damned at that point.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

My preference is to alter the environment rather than kill off the wildlife.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I have no idea what they would taste like.. I imagine squeakers would taste like really lean duck... (this is squeaker below)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...pics-edit1.jpg

They are barely a duck...... Most like a cross between a chicken and a duck. They roost in trees for crying out loud!

We have flyovers of at 20-50 on average during the spring/summer

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Recieved a new copy of the homeowners deed restrictions, and while there are bylaws regarding ponds, there are NO bylaws regarding landscaping, leveling of dirt, etc.etc.

Here is the email I have sent the HOA:


Assholes:

Thanks for the copy of the deed restrictions.

I did have a question. I see where there is ACC approval needed for a pond, and I have submitted a request for a pond. But I do not see anywhere in the deed restrictions where the ACC has any stated control over landscaping around my back yard or pond. There also appears to be no approval needed for any landscaping work, yard leveling, or any requirements for any landscaping improvement to provide any survey information or addition considerations.

Please clarify.

Thanks
TG.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

like i mentioned before........call it anything that they dont requlate......then they have the burden of proof ....instead of you having to jump through their hoops

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

You need to arrange to meet up with the asshat that is pushing this nonsense in a private inconspicuous location where he will be offguard and very quietly and quickly ask, if he doesn't like the view of the pond now does he think he will like it better from the bottom once it is filled in? Don't wait for an answer, just walk away.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

To: Assholes

I don't see where the ACC has the right to approve any changes in landscaping. There is no verbage that I could find that could be construed as a blanket statement for changes.

I demand to see the exact wording in the HOA rules or applicable laws that state this.

I am requesting once again where the ACC has the right to approve changes in landscaping.

Thanks
TG





<hr size="1">From: Assholes
To: TG
Sent: Thu, March 25, 2010 8:41:37 AM
Subject: Re: Question regarding deed restrictions and ACC

The ACC has the right to approve any changes - that is interpreted to include major landscaping (not just planting new flowers).

The Board is meeting tonight to go over your requests (to be able to continue the work) and to discuss the pond. Will let you know as soon as I know.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:

This email and any files transmitted with it contains information from RCM, Inc., which may be confidential and/or privileged. This information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named on this email. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify us immediately by reply email if you have received this email by mistake and delete this email from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.


In a message dated 3/24/2010 7:11:09 P.M. Central Daylight Time, TG writes:

Assholes:

Thanks for the copy of the deed restrictions.

I did have a question. I see where there is ACC approval needed for a
pond, and I have submitted a request for a pond. But I do not see
anywhere in the deed restrictions where the ACC has any stated control
over landscaping around my back yard or pond. There also appears to be
no approval needed for any landscaping work, yard leveling, or any
requirements for any landscaping improvement to provide any survey
information or addition considerations.

Please clarify.

Thanks
TG

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

assholes...

Its a water garden.. or a big ass Koy tank.... or a Retention basin...assholes

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

So what do you think? Think I have a valid argument here?

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Never know when you're dealin' with assholes.

I'm in civil man... Contract law is a bit out of my league.

Boils down to breech - but they let your neighbors breech (in the cases of existing ponds). It's obvious that there's not been equal treatment here, but I don't know if you have a case based in an inequitable conduct type deal or not.

jmo

eta:
consult that lawya

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Just - pls tell me you really really addressed them as assholes in your correspondence:rofl::emotions16:

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

http://www.texashoareform.org/

Check Title 11
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/?link=PR

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

It would seem that if they haven't defined what "Landscaping" is, then they have no argument.

Their blanket statement as it is interpreted by your average Joe basically says: "We can approve or deny anything."

And the word "Interpreted" is very, very, fishy.

My HOA fortunately is voluntary. The people who strive to serve on it, are the most contemptible individuals in the universe. Just reading the HOA forums inspires images of hell.

Sometimes I wish I was a lawyer.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I agree.


I could see you in a beamer. Lawya's w/ Jersey accents make the most moola.. You're young - There's still time:RockOn:

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

As far as I can tell, they can't 'interpret' anything. If it is not specifically stated as a power in the HOA covenants, they can't control it.

I am claiming the 10th on my personal property rights.....

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Re: Question regarding deed restrictions and ACC
...
From:
Assholes
...
View Contact
To: TG
your demand is noted


CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:

This email and any files transmitted with it contains information from RCM, Inc., which may be confidential and/or privileged. This information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named on this email. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify us immediately by reply email if you have received this email by mistake and delete this email from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Now THAT is some arrogance!!!!

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

arrogant assholes...


I get the feeling they are having fun with this.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Not entirely relevant to TG's issue but I have a buddy who serves on his HOA board. Oddly enough when we were young he was pretty hard core libertarian - seems like he and I have moved in opposite directions - me towards libertarianism and from party line GOP and he towards party line GOP. He has also converted to Catholicism which is how I was raised but left the Church as an adult.
Anyways the guy across the street from him put up a fence without asking permission from HOA. His tone with HOA was almost identical to TG's - I was at a card game with him and his fellow board members and these guys were saying how important it was to make an example of him and to draw a line in the sand so that the neighborhood understood that the HOA rules would be enforced, etc. etc. So I asked him what exactly do you intend to do and he said we are pursuing this with our attorney but if we have to we will forcibly enter his property and demolish the fence.
I said, Tom... you are my dear friend but if that was my home and you did that I would be prepared to meet you and defend my property with lethal force if necessary - have you guys even thought about that?
Hard lines can be drawn both ways - HOA or not a man's home is still his castle and anyone coming into mine with intent to harm me, my family or property does so at their own peril.
In the end the guy ended up writing the stupid request letter and the HOA gave him the stupid approval and life went on and everyone was fine but it just shows what power - even a little bit of stupid HOA power does to many people.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

dija go to the meeting?

Attachment 89763

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

No, can't demand to go to a non-regular meeting.

I will be demanding to go to subsequent monthly meetings.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

We all know the moral of the story right?





Yep HOA's suck

I learned that when I was 14 and my parents bought a condo.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I am sure the bylaws would provide for your attorney to demand full minutes to all meetings concerning your matter. (most cockroaches dont like the light of exposure)

I imagine you are being damaged by their failure to reach a quick resolution and their miss-interpretations of the HOA bylaws............(this may cost them)

You have tried to do what was/is right.......you stoped when they demanded ...you filed your request.....your doing nothing your neighbors have not already done...they have established a precidence that what you are doing is ok.....etc

maybe people on the board are trying to personally attack you with this and you are being discriminated against....(the obama argument)

The above are just thoughts and talking/letter writing points you might want to consider and expound upon but a brief trip to a mean arse attorny might get the ball rolling quicker

Good Luck

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Have you stopped work?

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

He did.

TG-Have they contacted you with their response from last night's meeting?

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Not yet, the hoa manager said that they gaver her a verbal response, but she is waiting for it in writing.

Translation: I am waiting to get the wording back from the attorneys.

So we will see.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Did they get an injunction? I would not stop if not. I would send them a letter withdrawing my membeship in the HOA. I would caution them to heed the castle doctrine as any attempt to provoke you further will be seen as a threat.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

It is getting just laughable now..... read this stretch of logic......


Assholes:

The only authority the HOA or ACC has is specifically stated in the bylaws and covenants. There is no inferred rights. This is easily demonstrable in court.

That is why there had to be an addendum specifically for ponds, otherwise, by the HOA logic, they would have already been covered.

Thanks
TG


On 3/29/2010 5:21 PM, Assholes wrote: This is standard in most deed restrictions - any major changes require approval - and again we are not talking about shrubs/flowers (as stated on my previous emails).

Assholes

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In a message dated 3/29/2010 5:12:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, TG writes:
Assholes:

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Are they honestly saying that trees, flowers, and dirt constitutes a building?

Then according to this, where are all the approvals for everyone that has brought in dirt over the last 5 years? Where is the approvals for trees, and gardens?

The XXX's next door to me have recently brought in massive amounts of dirt. Where is the approval there?

I just don't see where there is a reasonable precedent here. If there is, then the covenant for buildings is obviously broken since they have not been demanding approvals for all the other recent 'building' work.

Thanks
TG

On 3/29/2010 4:43 PM, Assholes wrote: Dear Mr. TG:

Two things:

1. the board is going to allow you to use the excavator to remove the dirt already dug up but do note, this in no way is approving the pond. A letter from the attorney will be forthcoming.

2. per your request about landscaping being part of the architectural control committtee - see Sec. 2 under Article III where it states "No building or other structure shall be erected without ACC approval." This includes landscaping.

Assholes

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In a message dated 3/29/2010 2:09:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time, TG writes:
Any more info on this request?

Thanks
TG


From: TG
To: Assholes
Sent: Thu, March 25, 2010 10:26:58 AM
Subject: Re: Question regarding deed restrictions and ACC

I don't see where the ACC has the right to approve any changes in landscaping. There is no verbage that I could find that could be construed as a blanket statement for changes.

I demand to see the exact wording in the HOA rules or applicable laws that state this.

I am requesting once again where the ACC has the right to approve changes in landscaping.

Thanks
TG





From:Asholes
To: TG
Sent: Thu, March 25, 2010 8:41:37 AM
Subject: Re: Question regarding deed restrictions and ACC

The ACC has the right to approve any changes - that is interpreted to include major landscaping (not just planting new flowers).

The Board is meeting tonight to go over your requests (to be able to continue the work) and to discuss the pond. Will let you know as soon as I know.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

You REALLY got to get out of there, you know.....this is just gonna go on forever. Your alternative is to do what my buddy in a condo did.....get on the board, and dig up all the dirt on them.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Get em TG!

That,^ to me, sounds pretty good. Doesn't it, to you?

I think they will let you have your pond.

I'm sure your pond will look nice and that should add to property values. :ok:

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

That is absolutely in the plans now, and after talking to my immediate neighbors, I have some allies....

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I'm startin to wonder if they're throwin one big hissy on ya since you didn't beg permission ( :sarcasm: ) to put up the hen house too...

Wish there was a legal "magic bullet" for messes like that.

How long do you have to wait on their legal counsel?

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

No more, I have decided that if this is the best they have, there is NO WAY they have any kind of case.

BTW> here is a pic of the neighborhood.

and no, there was no approval for all that bright yellow sand...

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I would not haul away any dirt because it sounds to me like as soon as you do they are going to say now fill that hole.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

They cannot, since there are other ponds in the neighborhood, they have no grounds to deny the pond and demand it be filled in.

They cannot deny it just because they want to.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I bought a house in a neighborhood with a governing little Hitler association back in the mid '80s. I really had never heard of HOAs at the time. Several of my neighbors and I were cited a number of times for having our garage doors open. It seems the HOA had a rule that garage doors could only be open when one was pulling a car in or out. Fences could only be so high, had to be made of certain materials, houses could only be painted certain colors, you couldn't have a boat or a trailer or a satellite dish that was visible from the road, etc.

I vowed never again to live in a neighborhood with an HOA. And I never will break that vow.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

if i see a house it to close to me .... this will never happen again that why i buy the land around me when it come up for sale

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

That's what I aim to do too. I don't want to be able to see my neighbors.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Sounds like the BS dance to me.....

better start adding words to your letters like...."wrongfully" "damaged" "discriminated" etc......power legal words that imply legal council

you need to also ask them for the minutes to the meetings or any other corrospondance with any person or entity that concerns you matter

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

The hardest thing about law school is getting in.


TG - Let word out in the neighborhood that you're throwing in the towel. Then a couple days later let it be known that you're selling to an organization that helps newly released ex-cons. And they plan to use the house for 4 to 5 just released long-timers. Talk about the tax benefits to you, how you like the idea of helping out the community, blah, blah, blah.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

techguy, what's something like this cost? i just bought a piece of property with an existing pond, and i'd like to expand it.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

Here's my pond last April. It's a natural pond, maybe 3 acres in size, and water levels change with the seasons.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...Puppies004.jpg

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

So far about 5k. We will end up with a $700 to $1000 buck aeration system with weighted tubing.

So total I expect around 7k.

A little of the cost is related to the leveling of the yard, the actual pond cost would be a little less.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

awesome. totally doable for me. i have to small foot ponds i'd like to trench out and make bigger.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

I think I have written my last friendly email to the HOA.....


<nobr id="1_messageHeaderSubject_text" class="cgSelectable">Re: Question regarding deed restrictions and ACC</nobr>
...

Tue, March 30, 2010 10:50:14 AM<table class="fontT2 fontMedGray" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr class="msgHeaderContainer"><td id="1_messageHeaderLabelCell"><nobr id="1_messageHeaderToLabel" class="headerRecipientLabel">From:</nobr></td><td><nobr id="1_messageHeaderSender_text" class="cgSelectable"></nobr>
TG...
View Contact</td></tr><tr id="1_messageHeaderToContainer" class="msgHeaderContainer"><td><nobr id="1_messageHeaderToLabel" class="headerRecipientLabel">To:</nobr></td><td>Assholes
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<script type="text/javascript" defer="defer">var YAHOO = {'Shortcuts' : {}}; if (typeof YAHOO == "undefined") { var YAHOO = {}; } YAHOO.Shortcuts = YAHOO.Shortcuts || {}; YAHOO.Shortcuts.hasSensitiveText = true; YAHOO.Shortcuts.sensitivityType = ["adult"]; YAHOO.Shortcuts.doUlt = false; YAHOO.Shortcuts.location = "us"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_id = 0; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_type = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_title = "Re: Question regarding deed restrictions and ACC"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_publish_date = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_author = "briansailors@yahoo.com"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_url = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_tags = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_language = "english"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.IBTrigger = "false"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.IBCategory = {"category":"entertainment", "score":"-0.235494"}; YAHOO.Shortcuts.annotationSet = { "lw_1269973535_0": { "text": "Dirt", "extended": 0, "startchar": 717, "endchar": 720, "start": 717, "end": 720, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "PERSON", "predictionProbability": "0.218504", "weight": 0.421583, "relScore": 0.777578, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/other/tv_show"], "category": ["OTHER"], "wikiId": "Dirt_%28album%29", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "The bylaw clearly states that the ACC must approve structures Dirt is not a structure The pond restriction was added to", "metaData": { "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1269973535_1": { "text": "RCOMMANAGE@aol.com", "extended": 0, "startchar": 1197, "endchar": 1214, "start": 1197, "end": 1214, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/email_address"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "deed restrictions hence it is an addendum Thanks Brian From RCOMMANAGE@aol.com RCOMMANAGE@aol.com To briansailors@yahoo.com Sent Tue March 30 2010 10:29:25 AM", "metaData": { "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1269973535_2": { "text": "(281) 493-5400", "extended": 0, "startchar": 2400, "endchar": 2413, "start": 2400, "end": 2413, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/phone_number/us"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "", "metaData": { "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1269973535_3": { "text": "(281) 493-5005", "extended": 0, "startchar": 2418, "endchar": 2431, "start": 2418, "end": 2431, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/phone_number/us"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "", "metaData": { "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1269973535_4": { "text": "\u003cbriansailors@yahoo.com\u003e", "extended": 0, "startchar": 9629, "endchar": 9658, "start": 9629, "end": 9658, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/mailto"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "", "metaData": { "linkHref": "mailto:briansailors@yahoo.com", "linkProtocol": "mailto", "linkRel": "nofollow", "linkTarget": "_blank", "linkTitle": "mailto:briansailors@yahoo.com", "linkYmailto": "mailto:briansailors@yahoo.com", "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1269973535_5": { "text": "\u0022RCOMMANAGE@aol.com\u0022", "extended": 0, "startchar": 10741, "endchar": 10770, "start": 10741, "end": 10770, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/mailto"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "", "metaData": { "linkHref": "mailto:RCOMMANAGE@aol.com", "linkProtocol": "mailto", "linkRel": "nofollow", "linkTarget": "_blank", "linkTitle": "mailto:RCOMMANAGE@aol.com", "linkYmailto": "mailto:RCOMMANAGE@aol.com", "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1269973535_6": { "text": "\u003cRCOMMANAGE@aol.com\u003e", "extended": 0, "startchar": 10913, "endchar": 10938, "start": 10913, "end": 10938, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/mailto"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "", "metaData": { "linkHref": "mailto:RCOMMANAGE@aol.com", "linkProtocol": "mailto", "linkRel": "nofollow", "linkTarget": "_blank", "linkTitle": "mailto:RCOMMANAGE@aol.com", "linkYmailto": "mailto:RCOMMANAGE@aol.com", "visible": "true" } } }; YAHOO.Shortcuts.headerID = "5e216b1757a12eccbc074d022735aa03"; </script> <style type="text/css"><!--DIV {margin:0px;}--></style>I didn't mean any insult to you, and I am assuming you did not mean that as an insult to me, but this argument that dirt=structure flies in the face logic.

I am not stupid, and I will not be pushed around or harassed by an ACC or HOA that is out of bounds. I have satisfied the stated requirements for a pond.

There is no possible way moving dirt could be construed as a structure. Your lawyer will tell you this as well.... or mine can.

The bylaw clearly states that the ACC must approve structures. Dirt is not a structure.

The pond restriction was added to the deed restrictions and is not included in the original filing of the deed restrictions, hence it is an addendum.

Thanks
TG


<hr size="1">From: Assholes
To: TG
Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 10:29:25 AM
Subject: Re: Question regarding deed restrictions and ACC

Dear TG:

I did not realize you are an attorney and obviously my 35 years of experience counts as nothing. My understanding is that landscaping is a change and major changes must be submitted to the ACC. A neighborhood is allowed guidelines, which includes the pond. There was no addendum to the restrictions.

You asked a question, I answered it to the best of my ability. You do not like the answer and there is nothing more I can do for you in that case.

Yours truly,

Asshole

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Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

You really should have just done it this way. Bury an old hot water tank dead centre of where you wanted the pond. Then call the police dept and tell them you think you've got a WWII era bomb in your back yard. They really don't like messing with old ordinance and will blow it in situe. One hole, minimal cost, and the neighbours ass'c can be sued for mis-representing the property when you bought it. Surely they knew that the Airforce had lost test ordinance in the area.

Re: Finally getting pond put in
 

****ing. awesome.